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Community portal
This noticeboard is community discussions, generally global in nature, or which relate to specific wikis or users. For requests that require Steward or Global Sysop intervention, please use Steward requests. If in doubt, please try here first, and you will be directed there if the matter requires a Steward. For discussion pertaining to Meta only, please visit the Meta Community portal.

On the Community portal, you can:

  • Start a community discussion, typically global in nature or which relates to specific wiki(s).
  • Solicit volunteers' assistance to help maintain or write content for your wiki
  • Ask questions with both the global community and system administrators about either Miraheze or some technical aspect of MediaWiki on your wiki
  • Request changes to your wiki's local interwiki table, including change(s) to locally override one or more of the global interwiki table (located on Meta) prefix configurations

If you would like to request:

To add your request, type in a concise title in the box below, then click "Add topic".
Archives of Community portal [e]   



The Miraheze Cookbook renaming RfC[edit | edit source]

I have created an RfC about potential wiki rename and redesign on The Miraheze Cookbook. Please see mh:cookbook:The Miraheze Cookbook:Requests for Comment/Wiki rename and redesign. Any feedback would be appreciated! Silicona (talk) 19:13, 16 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just reminding that this RfC is a draft one. Silicona (talk) 19:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, please note that as a general rule this portal is for global matters or mostly for asking for assistance with one's wiki. Advertising a local RfC pertaining to a local wiki matter isn't the most appropriate use. Reception123 (talk) (C) 20:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The renaming is required by @NotAracham so I created a draft RfC on that wiki. Silicona (talk) 21:22, 16 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Understood, but community members may add their input on-wiki, it's unnecessary for the most part to advertise here on this topic. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 04:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please don't send it on Meta Community Portal. Gongxiang01 (talk) 06:26, 17 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As of 23 March, this RfC is now open. Silicona (talk) 19:33, 23 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Done. Dmehus (talk) 19:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Anybody hasn't been voted in the last 6 days Can anybody come to vote? I'm pinging @DarkMatterMan4500 @BrandonWM @Reception123 @NotAracham @Commetian Empire @1108-Kiju @MacFan4000 @Redmin @Globe @PixDeVl and @Raidarr to encourage all to vote. Silicona (talk) 15:36, 29 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have no stake or interest on this matter and neither do most if not all of those pinged. Mass pings of this nature are discouraged especially in light of this and the caution reception already gave above. If it's opposite day I missed it. Finally this is increadibly bureaucratic for just... rename, done. The local community is nonexistent so an rfc was never needed. You may quote me locally if you wish on this. --raidarr (💬) 15:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree. I don't even use Miraheze Orian Cook book. I don't think people would be offended if you changed it. Please don't ping people if they have nothing to do with the thing you're talking about Commetian Empire (talk°•◇•°CentralAuth) 02:53, 1 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
+1 Globe - (Talk • Contributions • CA) 14:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Silicona: Not sure why I was pinged for, but I'll have a look at it. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 11:53, 1 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What to do if there are no or very little consensus. Silicona (talk) 12:20, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

To humor this affair for a moment, non participation tends to be taken as assent to the desired change if proposed by an operator. A similar procedure is in play if a local election for example has no participation. --raidarr (💬) 21:29, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Silicona thanks for picking a new name, considering the matter resolved on our end. :) -- NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 17:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The mediawiki.org is not visible on China.[edit | edit source]

Now, we can't visit mediawiki.org on China.

There is the solution for this question:

  • Fork(copy) some useful article with mediawiki.org, but you "shouldn't to create a wiki to fork it" by Content Policy. Best is on Meta.
  • Do not use with mediawiki.org link(keep a few link to it)

Who agree? --Gongxiang01 (talk) 10:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agree as creator. --Gongxiang01 (talk) 10:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

don't tell me use VPN or Tor, it's break the law in China. And Chinese users can testing do it can visit? -- Gongxiang01 (talk) 10:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's not illegal per se: https://www.tomsguide.com/features/are-vpns-legal-in-china
Also, rules are made to be broken. Collei (talk) (contributions) 18:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please search in Bing:
https://bing.com/search?q=VPN违法吗？ Gongxiang01 (talk) 10:06, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's only illegal if you get caught. (machine translation: 只要不被抓到，就不算违法。) コレイ (talk) (contributions) 10:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But if in a millionth i get caught how do do? Gongxiang01 (talk) 16:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
By the way, for the debate on whether using the VPN is illegal, you can refer to this article.--铁桶 (Talk) 11:37, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
为了加强对计算机信息网络国际联网的管理，保障国际计算机信息交流的健康发展，我国制定了《中华人民共和国计算机信息网络国际联网管理暂行规定》，其中规定了“计算机信息网络直接进行国际联网，必须使用邮电部国家公用电信网提供的国际出入口信道。任何单位和个人不得自行建立或者使用其他信道进行国际联网。”如违反上述规定，公安机关会责令停止联网，给予警告，可以并处15000元以下的罚款；有违法所得的，没收违法所得。
In Baidu translation(Machine translation):
In order to strengthen the management of computer information networks and international networking, and ensure the healthy development of international computer information exchange, China has formulated the "Interim Provisions of the People's Republic of China on the Management of Computer Information Networks and International Networking", which stipulates that "when computer information networks directly enter the international networking, they must use the international entrance and exit channels provided by the national public telecommunications network of the Ministry of Posts and Telecommunications. No unit or individual may establish or use other channels for international networking on their own." If the above provisions are violated, the public security organs will order the cessation of networking, give a warning, and may also impose a fine of up to 15000 yuan; Any illegal gains shall be confiscated. Gongxiang01 (talk) 16:04, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
get caught so difficult. But if in a millionth I'll caught, how i do. I don't know it will or never caught.
For the articles:
That so many articles said it is illegal. Gongxiang01 (talk) 16:10, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
read this:
http://www.gd.gov.cn/zwgk/gongbao/1996/15/content/post_3358205.html?eqid=c8734cf5000288ea000000026437bba4
That is government. Gongxiang01 (talk) 16:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi again,
I would like to clarify comments made previously by other users. We do not encourage violating laws, as it's in the name - illegal. I apologize for any comments previously that would've given that impression as that is not something that should be done.
Best,
BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 17:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In fact, there is currently no existing law in the mainland of China that explicitly prohibits circumventing the China network firewall. However, in the enforcement of the law, there have been cases where the use of the VPN to circumvent the China network firewall is deemed illegal (however, it could also be due to the use of the illegal VPNs. It goes without saying that there are legal VPNs in the mainland of China). In summary, this is a risky behavior and is not encouraged.--铁桶 (Talk) 17:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok, sorry, I understand, you shouldn't use a VPN or Tor then コレイ (talk) (contributions) 04:48, 23 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So how to solve it. Gongxiang01 (talk) 07:38, 23 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
https://library.kiwix.org/viewer#mediawiki_en_all_2023-07 this is on your user page. Does it work? I'm not completely sure about the solution, though. コレイ (talk) (contributions) 07:41, 23 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is only "凑合着用".
And not support the Chinese. Gongxiang01 (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok, well, if you want to read a mediawiki.org page, tell me which one you want to read and I'll send you the Chinese translation of it if a Chinese translation exists. I don't really have any other ideas. コレイ (talk) (contributions) 02:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I'll say in you talk page. Gongxiang01 (talk) 12:57, 1 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
说实话我忍不住想说一下，我住在中国深圳，是可以直接通过中国移动提供的网络自由访问 mediawiki.org 和 commons.wikimedia.org 的，不知道是你当地运营商搞的幺蛾子还是怎么回事。就算有时候访问速度不太行，你应该也可以用免费的“Web 代理”访问网页，甚至Youtube，而它确实不是VPN或者Tor。（虽然无法保留Cookies，因为代理IP是会更换的）
DEEPL TRANSLATORS: To be honest, I can't help but mention that I live in Shenzhen, China, and I can freely visit mediawiki.org and commons.wikimedia.org directly from China Mobile, so I don't know if it's your local carrier's fault or what. Even if the visit speed is not good sometimes, you should be able to use a free "web proxy" to access web pages, even Youtube, and it's really not a VPN or Tor. (Though you can't keep cookies, as the proxy IP changes). 麦田麦林 (Maitian MaiLin >w< talk)  13:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Templates not displaying correctly[edit | edit source]

I'm importing templates to my wiki and they don't seem to be showing correctly, specifically the message boxes. The border and left border color aren't appearing. How can I fix this? CyCGM (talk) 16:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please tell me wiki name, and template name, or the URL of it. I have a possible to help you. Gongxiang01 (talk) 17:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The wiki is private but alright. https://cbbc.miraheze.org/Template:Mbox and https://cbbc.miraheze.org/Template:Ambox — Preceding unsigned comment added by User:CyCGM (talk • contribs) 04:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please use the correct format, and don't forget you need sign, you can use ~~~~ to sign. It looks a private wiki's Ambox and Mbox template. If you copied from the dev wiki, don't forget to change you MediaWiki:Common.css to dev wiki's CSS. And you looks a newer. Thanks. --Gongxiang01 (talk) 04:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How do I change the default value of a setting on my wiki?[edit | edit source]

On my wiki (Rulepedia/196.miraheze.org), I would like to disable "responsive mode" for the MonoBook skin by default.

I figured out how to hide the setting from users, but its default value is still "enabled"; I want to make the default value "disabled", because the wiki uses a custom stylesheet that won't work in responsive mode. We don't need responsive mode for the MonoBook skin because we have Minerva for mobile users.

How do I change the default value of this setting? {{SUBST:User:Nulcow/Signature}} 23:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

{{Archived|

User request --Gongxiang01 (talk) 05:00, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Add interwiki[edit | edit source]

To mh:snowballaspedia

:fr:

Forward

URL: https://debilepedie.miraheze.org EmicraftNoob (talk) 23:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

bureaucrats Should have since been granted the interwiki right locally. You should be able to action the addition yourself I believe. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 11:02, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't, can you give it to all bureaucrats? EmicraftNoob (talk) 15:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
PixDeVl cannot do so as he is not a Steward. Per the results of an RfC, interwiki should be in the list of bureaucrat rights at Special:ListGroupRights on your wiki. If it's not, see if you can assign the bureaucrat group the right via Special:ManageWiki/permissions; if you cannot, file a steward request as that is not normal. Tali64³ (talk | contributions) 15:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Now I can set interwikis, thanks EmicraftNoob (talk) 16:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Preview image on posts[edit | edit source]

Hello. When I post one of my Wiki pages on social media (for example Facebook) I've noticed that the preview image on the post is the first image in the page. It happens that the first image in the page usually is a flag, an arrow or a lense used in a template that has nothing to do with the article itself, so I was wondering if there's a way to change this. Thanks ACalzoni (talk) 08:04, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The best wait to manually enforce an image for preview is extension WikiSEO (enabled by default), it has syntax for that, and you can make it into a template for easier use. But that also means you either do this on every page, or you can inject the code into infobox template, for example. There's also extension PageImages but it sets up the "most appropriate" by its own algorithm (still can be overridden with WikiSEO syntax and setting). Legroom (talk) 21:59, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Legroom is correct, you need to use one of the available extensions to manipulate this. Facebook, X, and other social media sites will use the "og:image" meta tags to decide what image is shown on a link from your wiki, so you need to be manipulating these meta tags to get the desired outcome. Original Authority (talk) 00:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

German Wikipedia link[edit | edit source]

How do you link to the German Wikipedia? Money12123 (contribs | CentralAuth) 11:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

[[w:de:[page name]|like this]] (example). Tali64³ (talk | contributions) 12:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Local wiki specification[edit | edit source]

Please let me know how much storage space we can use? I searched but didn't get the answer. Hurohukidaikon (talk) 02:38, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just avoid a tragedy of the commons. Use a reasonable amount. Agent Isai Talk to me! 02:41, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you and I agree with your comment. But the reasonable amount is different for each other. I want to know more clear guideline if there is. Hurohukidaikon (talk) 06:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Hurohukidaikon: no specification exists, to date no wiki has reached a point where one has had to be implemented. However if you describe your use case (how heavy the wiki is on image use, what they're used for and such) some best practices could be suggested. In general it's courteous to keep file sizes on the low end for everyone's benefit and to use images only if they actually come in useful for the content ie, avoiding a horde of unused graphics. Basically reasonable comes down to 'use what you need as efficient as you can conveniently make it'. But again, no hard and fast rule on this. --raidarr (💬) 21:11, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Raidarr　Thank you for your reply and my question is solved. Hurohukidaikon (talk) 09:42, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We are planning to add some license choices for our wiki users. Probably Almost files are Creative Commons and upload on Wikimedia Commons. But the others are Rights Statements which isn't exist any choices on the Commons, so these will upload on our wiki directly. Hurohukidaikon (talk) 09:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Missing Banner[edit | edit source]

FYI - WikiTide Foundation Board of Directors nominations are now open! banner is missing on https://gen.miraheze.org gen.miraheze.org
--- Imamy (talk) 03:02, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Completely dead images?[edit | edit source]

Hello, since a few hours, the images on my wiki are completely disabled.

And it's the only one of my wikis to which this has happened. And since I haven't seen anyone mention it, it must be my own problem. Link to my wiki: https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
Thanks in advance for your help. Darkrai18 (talk) 15:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

try Reupload image. Gongxiang01 (talk) 04:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
All the images? Because they're all dead. Darkrai18 (talk) 10:20, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Mine has the problem too. Silicona (talk) 12:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've tried the reupload images, and that doesnt work. the just show broken when you use a thumbnail resizing parameter such as |35px or |thumb 172.56.168.246 15:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If settings have not been altered, perhaps submit a ticket to Phorge; See what they advise.
  1. mh:Phorge#Creating_an_account/Logging_in
  2. mh:Meta:Community_portal/Archive_43#Problem_logging_into_wiki See instructions for Phabricator, which was the previous issue tracking system;
//
When I tried to open the images and I get an unauthorized message: Unauthorized
This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested.
  1. https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:NewFiles
  2. https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/File:Sonic-level-1-virtual-background-for-zoom-1024x576.jpeg.png
  3. https://static.miraheze.org/fictionwiki/0/0f/Sonic-level-1-virtual-background-for-zoom-1024x576.jpeg.png
--- Imamy (talk) 14:20, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Darkrai18: Fixed. Alex (Miraheze) (talk) 11:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Orian notice deleted[edit | edit source]

The Orian's name change notice was deleted. But it why called miraheze? It name changed. Gongxiang01 (talk) 05:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gongxiang01: Please let me explain.
Orian was a April Fools joke.
Miraheze did not "really" change to Orian.
It was only for one day.
So we stay Miraheze.
Hosted by the WikiTide Foundation.
 Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  05:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

CAPTCHA[edit | edit source]

The CAPTCHA hindered my reply on community portal. Usually, the CAPTCHA has some hints for answering but it does not have. It didn't show me any error messages. My environment is Safari on MacOS 14.2.1. Hurohukidaikon (talk) 05:53, 8 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perhaps there are no error messages. Sometimes, if I change my mind before posting (eg instead of posting I decide to edit again) then I'll get the CAPTCHA again.
If I get it during LOGIN, after I enter the password incorrectly, I have to fill out CAPTCHA.
--- Imamy (talk) 23:52, 8 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Imamy Thank you for your reply. Could you let me know what should or not I do to resolve it? Hurohukidaikon (talk) 09:00, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, I find a hint to solve it! When the Captcha appeared, I copied and pasted my message. Maybe I shouldn't copy and paste. Hurohukidaikon (talk) 09:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok, the cause isn't copy & paste but external link. I removed the link from my message. The post was published! Hurohukidaikon (talk) 09:47, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's wonderful news!
--- Imamy (talk) 21:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why do we need a confirmed email to start a wiki?[edit | edit source]

Hi! I'm The Master of Hedgehogs, and I came here to start my own wiki. However, I'm not comfortable using an email, so I can't start my own wiki. Why do you need an email to create a wiki? The Master of Hedgehogs (talk) 17:47, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For anti-spam purposes and in case we need to communicate with you about your wiki. Agent Isai Talk to me! 17:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What if the person doesn't use email? The Master of Hedgehogs (talk) 12:07, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is not possible to use the Internet in any meaningful way without an email. コレイ (talk) (contributions) 23:55, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Additionally, your email is private and cannot be accessed by other users unless they send you an email and you reply. Globe - (Talk • Contributions • CA) 17:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, in case you lose your password and don’t have an email to reset with, you could lock yourself out of any advanced permissions. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 18:06, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Request for Feedback - Rename Miraheze to WikiTide[edit | edit source]

WikiTide

As you may have heard, the Board of Directors has agreed in principle to rename the primary project of the WikiTide Foundation, long known as Miraheze, to the new name WikiTide. However, before going through with such a radical change, we want to hear feedback from the community.

We feel that changing the name will attract more people to visit us, create pages and wikis, and generally represent what we do the world better. We want to put wikis at the very center of our mission, and the best way to do that is to put it in our name.

The current name, Miraheze, has served us well, but doesn't do much to promote our mission. It doesn't convey any semantic meaning, being the names of two unrelated stars in the sky. The word doesn't stick in your mind, because it's something you can't understand on first hearing. You may not even be able to decide how to pronounce it[wt 1]. And while it has some value as a pre-existing brand among wiki communities, the name Miraheze doesn't go far to bring in people searching for a wiki. Unless you know it's a wiki, you don't know it's a wiki.

By making a clean start with our name, we can also leave behind the some of the negative aspects of our past as well. Since becoming a part of the WikiTide Foundation, we are much more stable technically and much faster. With our new tax status, we also have stronger financial statements and are receiving more donations organically. Our content standards are higher than they used to be, as we are legally an educational charity. A new name would also better represent this transformation into a larger, more professional organization to the outside world.

Things should not change very much for the constituent wikis of Miraheze under the new WikiTide name. For the most part, your wiki will get a WikiTide badge at the bottom of the screen instead of a Miraheze badge, and logos will be different in global sitenotices. If you have not set a custom logo and/or favicon on your wiki, the icon in the logo and browser tabs will change to match the new logo.

Your wiki's URL will not change — we are acutely aware of the problems caused when various Wikia domains were forced onto fandom.com, and do not want to repeat that particular mistake. Besides, Cool URLs don't change. Wiki admins on miraheze.org will be able to opt into joining the wikitide.org domain, just as they can already opt into a custom domain[wt 2].

Obviously, the URLs of official projects will change[wt 3], but old URLs will function as redirects. The default name for new wikis will become wikitide.org.

We would like to get the first steps of the rename done in 10 days or so, beginning with the changing of names and logos. But that doesn't mean that you don't have a part to play in this discussion!

Please leave your feedback below. The Board is especially interested in hearing your takes about how the proposed rename will help or harm our mission to expand non-profit wiki service. While you may have a personal attachment to one name or the other, that does not necessarily mean that it's good strategy for the Foundation.

  1. ↑ One of our Wikipedia pages has four different possible pronunciations
  2. ↑ But without all of that bother of setting up a CNAME record
  3. ↑ except testwiki

On behalf of the Board of Directors, Labster (talk) 08:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

DeeM28[edit | edit source]

I would like to start by thanking Labster and the Board of Directors for providing this opportunity for the community to express their views. I do not believe it would have been in accordance with the spirit of Miraheze and its general commitments (such as having regard to the mention of "democracy" on the Main Page) to do otherwise. I must first address some procedural concerns. Many organizations over time have opted for rebrand. Some were fully supported by their respective communities, some received mixed feedback and some were so unsuccessful that the rebrand had to be rolled back. I must cite the rebrand of Twitter to X as an example of a rebrand that was not handled well. As a result of the hasty rebrand and the support mostly limited to the most ardent supporters and fans of Elon Musk I do not think the rebrand was taken too well as a whole and I have both seen and heard a lot of people still refer to the platform as Twitter. This is why in terms of procedure I believe that consulting the respective community and having a dialogue is essential in order for a potentially unpopular rebrand not to be forced upon a community. It is slightly concerning to me that the statement made is that the Board would like to get it done in 10 days or so which suggests to me that the decision has indeed been taken for the most part and the Board is essentially asking for a confirmation of this decision. I understand that the dynamics of democracy can be a complicated matter on Miraheze and I am willing to give the Board the benefit of doubt on this matter and assume that it would be willing to change its approach following the feedback requested here.

In terms of substantive comments I believe it is overall a good idea to seek to have somewhat of a "reset" of Miraheze's reputation while still continuing to have regard to its history and commitments. It must be acknowledged however that even if the rebrand happens there will be some confusion for a while and a lot of users will still continue to call WikiTide Miraheze for a considerable amount of time. I also assume that the implication behind saying that the "default name" will be wikitide.org for new wikis is that new wikis will still be allowed to use the miraheze.org URL even after the rebrand which I believe is a good thing at least for a while.

To conclude my personal opinion is generally favorable to the terms of this rebrand however I believe that the Board must take special care in listening to the wider community and to resist the temptation of seeing this as a rubber stamp or a confirmation instead of an actual dialogue. DeeM28 (talk) 09:10, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rodejong[edit | edit source]

{{neutral}} leaning towards {{Oppose}}: I hope that this overview gives some insight for those who were not at the meeting last Monday, and would want to know how the talks were held, as it was not pretty, but it rarely is, when emotions are involved and the POV comes from different directions. We were definitely not on one line.

I personally do not have a problem with a rebrand. But ..
1: Miraheze has build a history both good and bad. It does not have to be discarded just because there is some bad connotation around it.
2: I do not like the logo. It's sterile and cold compared to the warm colour of the hives/flower.
3: In Discord we had the meeting on Monday, and the background of the rebranding was as follows:
A: Reputation towards Wikimedia
B: John
C: Miraheze's unpronounceable name
D: History with the problem wiki's
E: Fresh Start
F: WikiTide has "wiki" in it.
To me these are to weak reasons to rebrand (apart from F which is good for SEO).
4: A rebrand with "WikiTide links us to the foundation. That is a good thing, as it provides an understandable connection with the foundation.
5: Unfortunately the community has not been asked whether the community could come up with a name that both tells what our farm is about, but more so, what our community is about. I think that this is a missed opportunity. You could have asked which name would have been better. It doesn't have to be the same as the Foundation. Names like "WikiMira", "MiraTide", "MiraWiki" are just a few options keeping the "Miraheze" community included.
6: I think this is one of the reasons why the Discord Meeting of last Monday was so heated. The community feels that the board took a direction without any form of communication with the community. Granted, Monday was the best time to bring it up, but the board had it's plans already made clear, and the only thing that was left, was to defend why it was necessary. From what I read in several messages, was the feeling of "It is already set in stone, and this is just pro-forma." (That was also what I iterated at the meeting).
7: Of course it is the Board of Directors prerogative to make these changes even without the communities consent. But there were made some really good arguments against rebranding which never were answered, merely just waved away with the same arguments as above.
8: Perhaps the timing was wrong as well. We were just getting programs set up, like "Volunteering" on Discord Support threads, WikiCreation (myself included). Had you done it in last Fall when Miraheze was almost dead, I would have understood that a rebrand was necessary. From my point of view now, we are climbing out of the hole of which it had dug itself into, and that ability to do that stands for something. Miraheze is a strong name due to it's history.
9: Rebranding because you want to start clean from the ballast with Reception-/Ball-/CountryHuman-wiki's is understandable. But those who know that ballast will also know Miraheze and know that WikiTide is Miraheze. Losing the Ballast of the past is not so easy. That is also why I said that "Proving ourselves" is a far better way to rebrand ourselves (Rebrand from within) than "changing a name and logo" (Rebrand from the outside inwards).
10: Lastly, I understand how hard it must be as a "board of Directors" to make everyone happy. Sometimes tough decisions need to be taken. And whether this is a good one, only time will tell. But my feeling was that it was a) decided, b) let's convince the community, and c) implement it with an announcement. But you hadn't counted on so much arguments against it. Hence why the arguments given at the meeting for it were weak for the most part. The above statement still reflects the same outline as last Monday, without really addressing the concerns brought up last Monday.
 Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  09:39, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'd also like to add a point I brought up in the meeting. Part of intention of the rebrand is to "leave behind the some of the negative aspects of our past" including things like the near shutdown and Reception wikis. My issue with that is I believe the people this is targeted at, the wiki community and Wikimedians who know Miraheze's history as such, being familar with our history, would be the ones to most connect the new name to the farm and it's old past, compared to those who just heard of Miraheze via word of mouth of one of our preachers and remember it as a good place to host an ad free wiki, and may not think to look further and find WikiTide when they don't find it. There's also a lot of pride in the name Miraheze for many of our volunteers I'd assume. I doubt anyone would quit volunteering over a name change, but I wouldn't be shocked if some people are hurt by the change and may not be as active as before. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 11:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'd be surprised if someone is hurt and becomes less active. Would that indicate a level of fanaticism and infatuation towards a name? That's not healthy... Agent Isai Talk to me! 11:28, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Touché. At the very least would be a bit of a bummer. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 19:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
addendum:
Personally I think that we do not need to rebrand with a new name and logo. (At the minimum, not now) We are rebuilding our reputation as Miraheze. We are proving that we → under our own name ← can change for the better. That is how you rebrand. It's not the name. It's your reputation you (re)build.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  18:55, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Full heartedly agree. Not much more to it then this. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 19:42, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Raidarr[edit | edit source]

I'd concur with the above arguments that this process has been approached in a very 'get it over with' way which has its merits but risks damage and disenfranchisement the more that approach is used. The minimum period ought to be 10 days to resolve issues, notify a wide range of people perhaps via central notice, and since I know this venue is going to get absolutely messy, subpage it at least a a proper discussion if it doesn't take a full RfC approach as it should not be trivialized by being a big block in the middle of the CN. Is a name that major? Yes and no, enough yes I think it should be taken seriously. The period should extend until lingering concerns at least have answers though not everyone will ever fully agree. And I don't think it's ideal to get every peanut in the sea to give its 2c - but as this is a platform that has been built around a maximum of consultation it is still a change for the big Board™ to simply decide things and then use a process like this to hopefully rubber stamp unless the controversy is larger than expected. The approach can be taken but tread with it very carefully. I'm leaning strictly neutral since my qualms are pretty much just sentimental and barely logical 'miraheze is cool' sentiment and will mainly only comment on the process. If I had to vote I vote WikiZilla. The rest seems fine. --raidarr (💬) 10:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm largely in favour of this change; I think that including Wiki in the name is good, and WikiTide is a generic enough name that it fits well. I don't think that it's necessary to be explicit about the goals of WikiTide in the name, since we'd just get awkward names like "OpenWiki" or "WikiNonProfit" or something else. I'm not super fond of "WikiMira" or "MiraWiki" since, well: Miraheze is a good name, and I think that just splicing it with "Wiki" makes it a worse name.
My biggest concerns are with making sure the transition is smooth, as others have mentioned. I don't think that trying to relieve burdens of old reputation are a good reason to rename: we've seen plenty of much less friendly orgs try this and I don't think we should try to be in their company. I think that changing the name to include the term "Wiki" is a good premise, and if a change of era feels like something this name gives to people, I don't mind those people using it as an internal sense of motivation. I just don't want people to act like it's somehow more of a change than it actually is.
Basically, I don't think that we should try and purge the Miraheze name because it is part of the org's history, and trying to replace every instance of Miraheze with Wikitide immediately would just cause confusion, especially given how many wikis will continue to keep operating within the miraheze.org domain.
Longer-term, I definitely think that having a unified front is a good idea, and it may be preferable to figure out what to do with the Miraheze name at that point. But I worry that folks may be looking too much forward to a "full purge" of the Mira name because they think that a fresh coat of paint has more power than it does. As long as people understand that, I'm fine going forward with the change. LtDk (talk) 11:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I consider WikiZilla to be a no-go idea, considering how litigious Toho is about protecting their IP. Plus that might get in the way of WikiZilla, a wiki about Godzilla et al. Please be serious in your suggestions. Labster (talk) 19:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
{{neutral}} leaning {{Oppose}} per Rodejong. Stronger arguments must be made for me to support this. --Zeus (t • c • g) 19:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tali64³[edit | edit source]

I {{Oppose}} any change to the Miraheze brand:
We feel that changing the name will attract more people to visit us, create pages and wikis, and generally represent what we do the world better. We want to put wikis at the very center of our mission, and the best way to do that is to put it in our name. More people are visiting us as Miraheze, which is already known as an alternative to Fandom by many in the wiki world. Wikis are already at the center of our mission; we don't need to rename to show that.
The current name, Miraheze, has served us well, but doesn't do much to promote our mission. It doesn't convey any semantic meaning, being the names of two unrelated stars in the sky. The word doesn't stick in your mind, because it's something you can't understand on first hearing. You may not even be able to decide how to pronounce it. And while it has some value as a pre-existing brand among wiki communities, the name Miraheze doesn't go far to bring in people searching for a wiki. Unless you know it's a wiki, you don't know it's a wiki. Brand names do not have to be representative of a company's product to be successful. Google, the name of a Big Tech company and the operator of the most visited website in the world, does not represent its function as a search engine. In fact, it almost did the opposite; the word "google" would be defined as the use of a search engine in general today had Google not intervened to protect its trademark.
By making a clean start with our name, we can also leave behind the some of the negative aspects of our past as well. Since becoming a part of the WikiTide Foundation, we are much more stable technically and much faster. With our new tax status, we also have stronger financial statements and are receiving more donations organically. Our content standards are higher than they used to be, as we are legally an educational charity. A new name would also better represent this transformation into a larger, more professional organization to the outside world. Those who keep up to date with Miraheze news already know that we're better off than ever; they don't need a name change to communicate that. Changing the name of Miraheze will also not help with our reputation; it may actually harm it, since no matter what the intentions behind a rename are, people will see it as a way to avoid accountability. Those who are familiar with wikis already know about Miraheze and its troubled history; it won't magically go away. When people new to wikis look up "miraheze", they'll be confused when "WikiTide" pops up and not use it because they don't know it's the same service.
The status quo is perfectly fine, as shown by the fact that Miraheze is doing better than ever; rebranding is unnecessary and may actually be harmful to the project. Instead, we should be focusing on bettering ourselves as Miraheze, like we've always been. Tali64³ (talk | contributions) 19:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
wikipedia:Google: "Eventually, they changed the name to Google; the name of the search engine was a misspelling of the word googol, a very large number written 10100 (1 followed by 100 zeros), picked to signify that the search engine was intended to provide large quantities of information." Labster (talk) 21:50, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alright, you have a point there, but what about Apple? Its name is derived from something Steve Jobs came up with for entertainment, not because it bears any significance to the company or even to Issac Newton's discovery of gravity when an apple fell on him (in spite of what its first logo would have you think). The point I'm trying to make is that a company doesn't require a name that indicates what it does; there are many successful companies whose names don't align with their purpose. Tali64³ (talk | contributions) 22:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
wikipedia:Apple Inc.: "Apple Computer, Inc. was incorporated on January 3, 1977" ... "During his keynote speech at the Macworld Expo on January 9, 2007, Jobs announced the renaming of Apple Computer, Inc. to Apple Inc., because the company had shifted its emphasis from computers to consumer electronics." After 30 years of having "computer" in the name, after becoming one of the world's most valuable companies, they renamed. I think you probably have a point, there are companies like Johnson & Johnson or JP Morgan Chase which are named after their founders who do quite well. But those companies also have products under other names that are related to their industries. Since the wiki farm is the primary product, it just seems odd to me that the trade name is more obscure than the legal entity name. And it's not an argument that a rename wouldn't be better, just that it's still possible to be successful without renaming. I'm really looking for arguments like your last one: that when people look up "miraheze", they might not use us because they're expecting a different brand, and don't know it's the same service. Labster (talk) 00:43, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have held off on responding to this so-called RfF, but this draws me in. As you say, the legal name is irrelevant. People like Apple because Apple. The apparent claim is people don't like Miraheze, but as a Wiki Creator, I can attest to dozens or more daily requests for wikis (some days more than others; it fluctuates). I think the Miraheze brand is fine. I think rebranding is problematic, at least in the short term. – Jph2 (talk) 01:33, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with Jph2's statement about rebranding. It may have taken a while for Miraheze to be noticed, but I feel Miraheze is definitely on the map now.
--- Imamy (talk) 03:07, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Imamy[edit | edit source]

It may be confusing. Any type of rebranding will be confusing. However, I like the suggestion too. Perhaps because we had fun with Orain. The name Orain does bring a smile to me whenever I think about it. --- Imamy (talk) 03:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a list of some random thoughts:
  1. The name Miraheze is unusual, however the name has grown on me as has its logo.
  2. The WikiTide name and logo are attractive too.
  3. I particularly like how the name Miraheze stands out in searches. It is recognizable and there is no uncertainty of when the name Miraheze is referenced.
  4. Miraheze as a name may not have meaning to strangers. But for the local folk like us (at least for myself), due to its innocuousness, the name has come to represent much more. Like King Arthur's Court and Avalon, we have so many stories.
  5. Perhaps Miraheze is unpronounceable. Not only does that make a very neutral name, like the Tower of Babel, it promises to spread our presence across the net far and wide.
  6. A clean slate is nice. However negative aspects will allow us to see how far we've come.
  7. Regarding: "We feel that changing the name will attract more people to visit us, create pages and wikis, and generally represent what we do the world better. We want to put wikis at the very center of our mission, and the best way to do that is to put it in our name." I feel this statement is true. The Name: WikiTide is clearly more recognizable as a Wiki Host Name than the Name: Miraheze. The first time I saw the Name: Miraheze, I had to wonder about whether Miraheze was a Wiki Host or some other service. I must have done extra searches before taking the plunge.
Recap to sum up my feelings:
  • I'll be okay with a Name Change to WikiTide. However I'll be happier to keep the Name Miraheze.
Final Thoughts:
  • Regardless of whether Labster's outline is followed, I will support a Name Change to WikiTide if leadership feels this is for the best. In my opinion, due to the people who have contributed so much to keeping Miraheze whole, I feel our site will be successful regardless of our Chosen Name.
---- Imamy (talk) 03:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

HanTheGene[edit | edit source]

Questions and thoughts:

- Is there further like...data or something, that this name change will achieve the goals put forth and/or that the current name is posing issues that a name change will solve? Do the advantages of the name change outweigh keeping Miraheze and its however many years of history?
- I feel like Miraheze's name recognition is being downplayed a bit with "it has some value as a pre-existing brand". It's the alternative to Fandom.
- While it's good that people get to keep their Miraheze domain (because otherwise RIP to my 3 years of dropping links to my wiki everywhere it's appropriate), won't this be confusing since that would mean thousands of wikis are still on the Miraheze URL?
- I don't know anything about SEO, but is this gonna affect SEO? Like some people search for Miraheze, some people search for WikiTide, instead of having it all-in on WikiTide.
- I don't consider resistance to the name change on the grounds of "there aren't enough arguments for a change" to be sunk cost fallacy, more that the burden of proof is on the party that wants to make the change.
I'm not knowledgeable on the subject of like..branding, marketing, communication studies, etc., so I don't have the skills to appropriately weigh the pros and cons of each option, but these above points are the things I'm concerned about. HanTheGene (talk) 15:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Labster's Input[edit | edit source]

I've given other people a chance to respond, but now I'd like to share my own thoughts about the rename -- not coming from the board, but myself as an individual. It's going to be bit rambling, so I doubt I will actually convince anyone of anything, except maybe that I have really thought long and hard about renaming to WikiTide.

  1. I have never actually liked the name Miraheze. It's globally unique, sure, but that's really the only thing I can say in its favor. It was sorta obtusely tied to the WMF backend in a weird obscure reference. I like obscure things (I have a fanfic of two animes from whence I am the only person to write one on AO3), but not for naming things. (This does not count as an argument for renaming, because it's just, like, my opinion, man.)
  2. I have wished Miraheze was renamed since 2015, but one does not simply convince John, so I have pretty much ignored it. I am not the driving force behind this rename, either, I'm just going along for the ride.
  3. The corollary to that is that from my point of view, all of the things about cleaning the reputation are just a bonus, and not really the point of it at all. I would have happily renamed the farm before John got OFFICE banned (yes, also before I was a volunteer, so I didn't have a say back then) or any of the other stuff happened. The clean start is really important to some of my colleagues on the board, but is just another positive argument to me and not the main goal.
  4. The WMF really botched an attempted rename to Wikipedia Foundation, ignoring their community to go forward. But I can think of lots of easy arguments why renaming the WMF is a bad idea and I'm having trouble coming up with any negative arguments at all here.
  5. I see arguments here that we need to meet some sort of standard to be convince people that a rename has merit, yet the standard doesn't have to be met for staying with Miraheze. (And then some people say that there's no way the rename standard could be met.) That's not how the decision should work. The question is simple: Will rebranding to WikiTide be more beneficial, or will remaining as Miraheze be more beneficial? One must have more benefit than the other in the long term. Any other standard makes no sense.
  6. Chesterton's Fence concerns are already handled; I know why the name Miraheze was used, and I know why WikiTide is proposed. There really is no reason to value the status quo solely because it is the status quo.
  7. I think to some folks, they consider Miraheze a part of their identity, so they don't like the name changing because it means changing a part of themselves. This I consider to be a concern and a valid against renaming; people have a right to their own identity. I don't share the feeling, so I don't know how widespread it is.
  8. A couple years back, my elementary school was renamed because the person it was named after was a superintendent who supported segregation, likely in a place and time where a person had to be a segregationist to be elected in the first place. For a moment, it felt a little sad, but by now it feels like it was the right decision. Change is life.
  9. Have you ever tried to talk to real physical people in person about Miraheze? I have, many times. They can be technical people, but if I say "I work with a wiki farm called Miraheze," I get these blank looks. Some of it is from "wiki farm", but mostly it's because "Miraheze" doesn't sound like any word they know. They mishear it. Sometimes they ask how it's spelled. And then the topic of conversation inevitably changes topic or trails away, because they've spent all of their time thinking about the name and not what it does. It sounds like some weird group, not a mainstream thing. It's a limitation to getting new people involved.
  10. This ^, but also no one knows for sure how to pronounce Miraheze, which I never bring up when trying to recruit. People saying the same thing in the same dialect differently is not cute or funny, it means we are not communicating well.
  1. I have to imagine something similar happens for people on search engines. They look for wiki, and see a thing called Miraheze. They could just click, but clicking a link is a snap decision. It's just as likely that they move on. Or click the higher ranked Fandom page, because "fandom" is actually a word.
  1. Fundamentally, I am working on the theory that changing the name to WikiTide will cause hardly any people to leave our wikis, but may increase the rate by which we get newcomers. Obviously a long-time volunteer is worth more than new people who may not stick around anyway. But I still think the net value of the newcomers is likely to be greater.
  2. I don't think concerns about losing SEO are likely to bear out in the long term. SEO seems a lot like voodoo to me. Everyone has their own version of the practice, lots of things work until the algorithm changes, and in the end everyone has to go through Papa Legba (Google) anyway — and he works in mysterious ways.
  3. WikiTide maybe sounds a little safer, a little more corporate, where Miraheze seems like a small project with perhaps an in-joke name. And I'm okay with sounding more corporate. People put up with Fandom and Meta and all of the other corporations in the modern age of digital serfdom, because that seems safe to them. I think we want to be a bigger project, and a more professional project. I want a name that signals that to people, that we are a legitimate choice for wiki hosting.
  4. I think Miraheze's apparent wider reputation is greatly exaggerated by proximity bias amongst the community. In my experience talking about Miraheze at technical conferences, no one really knows about it. WikiTide picked up Rosetta Code while we were still separate, which might mean that my friends at tech conferences know about us now, but that's still a point for WikiTide.
  5. If we had more donations, we could hire consultants to come in and tell us what our brand should really be, and do all sorts of fancy work and focus groups. Would this convince people if we had numbers saying the change would be better? I hope not, because most consulting firms are just brought in to validate what management wants to do anyway. In theory we could do a focus group but I doubt it would be valuable.
  6. All of my arguments have the underlying assumption that growing the wiki project is the right thing to do. I think there might be legitimate arguments calling for slower or no growth, but they're unlikely to convince me. Our growth has left us the most stable that we've ever been, and we're just getting started. Our SRE are not just putting out fires, but have time to develop more features. I think our mission to defeat Fandom by offering a better product with democratic leadership calls for lots of growth. Oh, and our mission to educate more people with wikis. That too.
  7. Rob's argument about Orain was interesting, because we really did not much consider the reputation of WikiTide as the target of the rename. There has been a lot of somewhat bonkers talk about how WikiForge is a for-profit takeover (literally all its profits go to WikiTide) and we're doing a backdoor commercialization. Seriously, that was all possible on Miraheze before WikiTide got involved, but it is now legally impossible. That's what real nonprofit status does; it forces us to act in a non-for-profit manner. Back on the reputation point, I think having a small reputation for WikiTide is actually a benefit, and those are a couple of easily fixed wiki pages.
  8. I acknowledge that my opinions about the reputation and name recognition of Miraheze and WikiTide are anecdotal, and I don't have any data to share. Just a reminder that WikiTide was getting new wikis created when it was independent from Miraheze.
  9. These are only my own opinions, and I really do have an open mind. I have been trying to steelman arguments for Miraheze to the board, and have failed to find anything persuasive. I can still be persuaded to change on the basis that renaming to WikiTide would hurt the project, or keeping Miraheze would benefit the project.

All of that said, I find the arguments for rename compelling, the arguments against weak (or irrelevant), and so I {{support}} renaming our project to WikiTide. It will bring more organic traffic, make word-of-mouth messaging more effective, and serve as a signal of a more organized future. --Labster (talk) 08:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@User:Labster: There are a few points I want to react to:
  • The question is simple: Will rebranding to WikiTide be more beneficial, or will remaining as Miraheze be more beneficial? One must have more benefit than the other in the long term. Any other standard makes no sense.
  • The rebranding might give a short boost, but in the long term I think that people will think, Oh another Wikifarm who want's to ride on the "wiki" name. The Fact that Miraheze is a unique name, makes it a distinct name, fully recognisable.
  • It sounds like some weird group, not a mainstream thing.
  • I don't believe at all it is a bad thing. Again. The name is known. It doesn't háve to mean something. There are many companies with names that have no real meaning. And they just run fine. Again our Unique name can make us stand out from the crowd of "wiki-somethings" the strong sequoia midst of oaks.
  • how to pronounce Miraheze
  • Educate, Educate, Educate. And it should start on the Meta's frontpage where people can be directed to a wikirequest.
  • People put up with Fandom and Meta and all of the other corporations in the modern age of digital serfdom, because that seems safe to them. I think we want to be a bigger project, and a more professional project. I want a name that signals that to people, that we are a legitimate choice for wiki hosting.
  • Granted. That is exactly what I want for our community and foundation too. But rebranding often fail. WikiTide will drown between WikiPedia, WikiBooks, WikiSource, and soon people think, oh another Wikimedia project. Fandom avoided that cleverly. They kept their own identity. True their still not rebranding their ideas. Your Comparison of META is wrong. META = WikiTide Foundation where as Facebook and Instagram still are the main brands. Miraheze = like Facebook and Instagram, in this regard. They wouldn't dream to call Facebook or Instagram "META".
  • point 15: in my experience talking about Miraheze at technical conferences, no one really knows about it. WikiTide picked up Rosetta Code while we were still separate, which might mean that my friends at tech conferences know about us now, but that's still a point for WikiTide.
  • Now there are two things to debunk here. The people you talk to are often on the MediaWiki spectrum (correct me if I am wrong in my assumption) and Compare quickly to Wikimedia. But our Users are often not. They are like many "MediaWiki-Illiterate" and therefore are more connected to the Using side of things, in stead of the Designing/Developing/Technical side of things. The point of view of the few behind the scenes can't way up to the views of those who Use the community. Miraheze has had some Huge storms, but we're mostly over that. Our name is establishing itself as a community that dug a hole for it self, but decided- enough - and dug their way out of it again, in just a half year. → That is how you really rebrand your self. Prove doubters wrong, make sure we get the message out: "We went through a rough patch, crawled through the dust, and climbed our way out of it. We're stronger than before." @User:Labster: You asked that if we have money we could get a consultant. And what if he said the same thing? I know you hate the name. And that is okay. I hate the WikiTide Logo too, but I don't let it stand in my way to vote yes if the reasons are convincing.
  • Labster inserting himself to reply: you are wrong in your assumption. They are quite often on the autism spectrum, but very rarely have anything to do with Mediawiki, and might be more experienced in Github wiki, Confluence, or PmWiki than Mediawiki. Or only a Wikipedia reader. Also I'm not in love with the WikiTide logo and actually slightly prefer the Miraheze logo which is surprisingly flexible. I don't know that it makes sense to keep it with a rebrand, though.
  • assumption that growing the wiki project is the right thing to do.
  • → We are growing with about a few 100 new wiki's per week (If I see it correctly) and people really know where to find us. Our Hives/flower logo is warm and inviting. And yes, growing we will to in the future. We have been working hard to restructure. We have meetings with ideas, proposals, and that is also part of rebranding.
  • Closing remark: Rebranding starts within. Not from the outside. If a criminal wants to get on the straight and narrow, He has to start with himself. Changing his name won't help him. Changing the attitude does. When you have changed your organisation from within, and everything works, You have proven, that Miraheze is something to be reconned with. Whether you still want to change the name then, can be discussed then. But as I said above. The timing is wrong. We're still climbing out of that hole. Get out of the hole, then change your clothing.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  12:45, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have to clarify that I'm not objecting to Name Change. I'm objecting to making a Name Change for the reasons presented. I much rather go for a Name Change for reasons that will not make my heart ache.
    To anyone who does not know Miraheze, Miraheze is all make believe, much like Avalon. It does not exist except in our head. For those of us who have lived it, it is reality.
    If one were to look from the outside, we had our skirmishes and our battles. From the inside, we went through a lot of hardship and the server was split in two. New servers were spawned and then we came back together. When I think of those times, I think of those times as victories, not as bad reputation to be swept away.
    I do feel that a Name Change will be beneficial, but not at the expense of putting down those reasons.
    First time I saw the name, I did not like the Name. I kept wishing it had been something else. But, it grew on me. I can name the issues and the moments that made the Name special to me. I'll always wish it were a prettier name. However, I'm very happy that it is the name that it is simply because of the way things unfolded. Things that happened, could never have happened with some other name. It made me realize that the people in the community made the difference. The number of volunteers had dwindled to where it felt like the server should not exist anymore, but yet it did. so that is just one reason I love the name.
    However, a Name Change is beneficial. The strongest argument for me would be that everyone likely has gone by a different name throughout their life. There is no reason to stay the same name forever. The name only marks a moment in time. Kentucky Fried Chicken became KFC. AOL has switched hands so many times I don't know who owns it now.
    But if we let the reason be that it's to let go of those negative aspects, that is like saying we agree that those were times so horrendous that we had to change our name in order to redefine ourselves. Redefinition is not required. We are a body of individuals who simply enjoyed surviving a bad spell. I'd like to rename Miraheze to WikiTide more as a Celebration of surviving such a traumatic time and still be able to laugh about it. The idea of naming to WikiTide appeals to me too because it came after Miraheze, so in my mind it is a fitting name too. However, to select WikiTide because it's a prettier name is not a good reason. Nor is for pronounceability. Unless I want to be a movie star, I'd like to keep my name and hopefully be like the rare movie star who made it big while keeping their own name. Some people have taken up a different name for a while and then reverted after success so a name change for those reasons are not good reasons. Anything that may potentially bring regret is not a good reason for changing one's name.
    Another reason I'd find acceptable for name change is to attract a specific demographic. It's clear we are only tapping into a fraction of a fraction of a small percentage of our desired demographic target. I'd love to welcome a new wave or generation to Miraheze. A name change like this will be beneficial because they'll recognize us by our new name. We won't have to advertise to get their attention. They'll find us much like the saying All Roads Lead to Rome
    To wrap it up, I am only speaking for myself.
    So for me, I'll support the name change if that's what leadership feels is best (because this is a good reason to make a change), but not for the reasons that represent how the world sees us (because this is perhaps the worst reason to make a change). Because, how the world sees us and how we see ourselves are completely different and it just won't feel right changing our name for those reasons.
--- Imamy (talk) 01:38, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redmin[edit | edit source]

{{oppose}} I oppose this for reasons that have been well articulated by others above. But most importantly, I feel that the manner in which this is being handled is more or less a sham and the Board is only hoping to find enough support for this to justify a decision that has already been taken (and not just "agreed in principle") and one only its members find necessary. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean you should exercise it, especially when that right concerns a community-run project. Redmin Contributions CentralAuth (talk) 16:47, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rob Kam[edit | edit source]

If there has to be a rebranding, please postpone it until after the transition between servers/management has been completed and most problems are resolved, rather than making matters more complicated than they already are. I prefer the name Miraheze, it's a unique name, a recognised brand with a logo that reflects the wiki farm's ethos. --Rob Kam (talk) 11:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I second that statement ↑  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  11:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The transition between servers and management was done back in February, so there's really nothing to wait for. Waiting for most problems to be resolved is the same as saying "never", since new problems always appear. I guess I don't understand your comment @Rob Kam. Labster (talk) 08:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was thinking of WikiTide 'shutting down on April 15th, and all wikis to have migrated before then.' My wikis were migrated early February, and I'm still waiting for the two broken ones to be fixed. It appears that these days the queue on the issue tracker is not being dealt with as promptly as it was before June 2023. Reinforcing SRE/operations, and resolving current issues, is more important than fiddling with rebranding and potentially creating additional issues. --Rob Kam (talk) 11:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I second this. コレイ (talk) (contributions) 23:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As for the secret Wikimedia Foundation staff cabal (aka Office) versus John issue, I only know that John did a lot of good work for Miraheze and AFAIK is now entirely disassociated from the project. Changing the name is not going to change the history. --Rob Kam (talk) 13:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Collei[edit | edit source]

  • {{oppose}} So I'm really not sure why a rename is needed. The claims of reputational damage to Miraheze are greatly exaggerated, and renaming a company to avoid PR issues is the kind of shady practice that I'd expect to hear a company like the NSO Group doing, not a non-profit that supports free access to knowledge. Miraheze is not very well known, but those who do know it know it as Miraheze. Renaming it to WikiTide will not help with word of mouth marketing or really anything else. Domain names do not have a large impact on SEO, so that claim is also illogical. I do acknowledge the importance of SEO and perhaps the Board could look into some kind of SEO initiatives. The WMF vs John issue doesn't really make sense. I don't understand why that is related to Miraheze or why a rename to WikiTide will resolve it. John quit Miraheze a year ago and made an angry announcement that he'd report the company or something, he has no connection to Miraheze now and renaming Miraheze to WikiTide won't solve the issue. The pronounciation issue is also minor. Miraheze doesn't need to have an official pronounciation. People can call it ミラヘゼ, mee-rah-heez, mir-ih-heeze, etc., it doesn't really matter, people still know what you're talking about. The name being two random stars is also irrelevant. Google, for example, is one of the largest and most successful businesses, and their name is not even a real word. Discord's name is also not in any way related to the services it provides, Fandom's name is only tangentially related, nearly every game company has a name that was simply invented (HoYoverse, miHoYo, Bungie, Mojang, etc.), and so on. コレイ (talk) (contributions) 04:46, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

BrandonWM[edit | edit source]

Here's my opinion on this rename: I think it's fine. Miraheze has a lot of bad baggage attached to its name. Reception wikis, John, everything around the name Miraheze has compounded over time into what is generally a less favorable view of us as a community and organization. It's part of the reason that the foundation behind the project is named the WikiTide Foundation and not Miraheze Limited. Allowing us to move forward under the brand name WikiTide unifies the foundation and project and allows us to have a fresh start. There is an argument that an effort could be made to improve our reputation instead of changing the name, yes. And it's not a bad idea. But we'll never fully recover from the damage that some did to our brand in years past, and the name Miraheze will always be tarnished. WikiTide, on the flip side, is not. Now, from a purely aesthetical perspective, WikiTide is a much cooler name, has a better and more variable logo, and is just overall a cleaner and more modern look. For all the reasons above, I'm a {{support}} of the rename. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 05:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perhaps you should try to debunk Collei's statements right above you. Collei has made valid points, that make your comments outdated. Your comment is clearly a repeat of what Labster has stated already. Knowing you, you can do much better than this ;-)  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  07:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I already answered all of these above. Renaming an organization so that people don't associate it with its past behavior is unethical and shady. Furthermore, there has never been evidence of a strong level of reputational damage. John has been gone for a long time, the reception wikis we have now are not disruptive, etc. People will sometimes associate Miraheze with what it has done wrong, that does not mean Miraheze is permanently doomed and that we need to abandon our name. Also, everyone who is in any way in the know will know that Miraheze just renamed to WikiTide, and that this was done to avoid PR issues. It's essentially a concession that Miraheze's behavior was inappropriate and that instead of trying to resolve our behavior, we're trying to sweep it under the rug. This is not the kind of PR that Miraheze should have. But we'll never fully recover from the damage that some did to our brand in years past, and the name Miraheze will always be tarnished 1) there is no evidence of Miraheze's brand being permanently tarnished, 2) why won't we? WikiTide, on the flip side, is not Again, renaming to avoid a bad reputation (for very valid criticisms) is unethical. This is a shady PR practice that malicious companies do. It is not something that a nonprofit supporting free knowledge to should do. Now, from a purely aesthetical perspective, WikiTide is a much cooler name, has a better and more variable logo, and is just overall a cleaner and more modern look This is subjective and not a valid reason to rename. I personally find the logo unnecessarily complex and the name to be very uncreative. コレイ (talk) (contributions) 23:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Others[edit | edit source]

How do I get administrator on an abandoned wiki?[edit | edit source]

Hello! I have a question about abandoned wikis, can they be adopted? I want to become administrator of a French wiki that has been inactive for months, and I'm trying to revive it, but I want to become administrator of that wiki in order to improve it better. I don't know if there are any requirements to become an administrator of a wiki or something like that. I just have that question, I don't know if you can help me with that.

By the way, I'm writing this through the translator, so I don't know if I'm making myself understood with that. São tome (talk) 15:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi. If the community is still active, but the bureaucrat(s)/admins are inactive, you could create an election to appoint new bureaucrats to run the wiki.
See Local_elections#Elections_on_wikis_with_inactive_bureaucrats for more info on elections.
Please add the link to the wiki that is "abandoned."  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  18:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, ok. But I'm not ready to enter the elections yet, maybe in a week or a month, but thanks for the help. São tome (talk) 01:40, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template Updatng[edit | edit source]

Hello; I am writing regarding how templates are updated on pages they are included on. For example, when I edit a template and go to a page it is included on, the page still shows the pre-edit template. This is usually resolved by editing/purging the page in question or waiting a few hours.

Is this behavior normal? Editors on my wiki have noticed this and have expressed concern about a larger issue. Many thanks in advance! FazDude (talk) 00:04, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The job queue has been acting real funky lately since it's been moved from Redis to Kaftka and we're still beating the kinks out of it. The issue will hopefully be fixed soon but until then the cache and notifications are likely to be a little groggy. Sorry for the trouble. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 00:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see; Thanks for the info! FazDude (talk) 00:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Request for Crat Permission[edit | edit source]

Hello It's me Nexovia actually in the wiki where I am working currently it's founder has been inactive since some times so except me there is no one active there so I want crat rights there and I messaged him but he is not responding and don't think he is going to so what should be done now and talking about the way of Local Elections the community is also inactive. Nexovia (talk) 06:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi. If the community is still active, but the bureaucrat(s)/admins are inactive, you could create an election to appoint new bureaucrats to run the wiki.
See Local_elections#Elections_on_wikis_with_inactive_bureaucrats for more info on elections.
Please add the link to the wiki that is "abandoned." 2A02:AA7:4043:505:FC07:30D9:C5B8:EEA2 09:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't think the community is active what should be done except Local Elections now. Nexovia (talk) 09:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And I can't add link to the Wiki it asks for CAPTCHA. Nexovia (talk) 09:33, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note for ref (mh:olympics:Talk:Main Page, you can use interwiki links like this with the subdomain to link to other MH wikis) ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 10:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can you help me out with this situation. Nexovia (talk) 11:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Nexovia. Please follow Raidarr's (and others) directions here. Globe - (Talk • Contributions • CA) 11:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deletion of Accounts[edit | edit source]

I as my account with name Nexovia login in many unnecessary Wikis so is there any to delete all of my accounts from there. Nexovia (talk) 09:24, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not really, unfortunately. Your best bet will probably be a fresh start while transferring local rights to any place you can. --Zeus (t • c • g) 11:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you just want to clean up your CentralAuth account list a fresh start seems excessive. I'm not sure but SRE may be able to detach some account but I don't think the local ones can be deleted ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 12:06, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Every time you visit another wiki, your account will be attached to it. It creates a local entry in the database. There is nothing you can do about it.
If you want to start fresh, you could ask to hide your account (It will be showed as former user in stead. But you'd need a good reason for such a change.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  13:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Detaching is an easy trip to severe technical difficulties; for this reason accounts are never detached manually. --raidarr (💬) 13:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Error in Special:Preferences[edit | edit source]

Hello community, I want to ask you if this error is caused by a faulty extension or is it an error in the software?, the error looks like this: 

[b37c80e077ba5b67abd240fe] 2024-04-12 18:16:30: Fatal exception of type "MWException"

I also noticed that the error only occurs in TuxData and not in other wikis, is there a way to solve it? Alxira5 (talk) 18:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Our logging software is having issues for a bit so tech can't debug the error. I'd look at the extension list and see if theres anything different that may be the cause ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 12:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just did an inspection in TuxData and I realized that the culprit was the Cosmos skin, I'm still not sure why, but I disabled it immediately. Alxira5 (talk) 15:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@OrangeStar: Does Alxira5 merit an investigation?  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  08:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Vote now in the Board Election[edit | edit source]

Hello everyone! I am pleased to announce voting is now open for the WikiTide Foundation Board of Directors. You may vote to support or oppose as many candidates as you want (or abstain).

Review the candidates; then, cast your vote.

Your vote matters! The two candidates that receive the most votes will be elected to two-year terms, and the rest will be elected to a one-year term. Miraheze is run by the community, so we hope you make your voice heard.

Voting is open until May 9 at 04:35 UTC. Harej (Miraheze) (talk) 05:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The order of voting button is different for NotAracham. In a hurry I clicked the wrong button for my vote. The first two candidates have Support Oppose Abstain while those for NotAracham are Abstain Support Oppose. --Rob Kam (talk) 11:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Rob, you can vote multiple times. Your previous ballot will be discarded. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c - (on) 11:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If anyone is having issues with voting, despite being qualified to vote, please contact ts@wikitide.org for assistance. Harej (Miraheze) (talk) 14:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Check user and suppressor rights on large wikis[edit | edit source]

On most WMF wikis they have its own check user and suppressor rights, which is appointed by local bureaucrats. This makes local check users and suppressors fight disruption and LTAs easily without needing a steward (global action). This idea is to bring check user and suppressor user rights to larger Miraheze wikis, appointed by local bureaucrats. Can be requested in Steward requests to enable.

  • 200 articles, 2,000 edits and 20 active users - eligible
  • 1,000 articles, 20,000 edits and 100 active users - enabled automatically

If that idea is accepted, I will create an RfC about this. Silicona (talk) 13:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How does this even work? Would bureaucrats then automatically have CU/OS and be able to check others and grant those rights upon request? How would the WikiTide Foundation ensure non-disclosure agreements are processed by all involved if the local groups are enabled automatically on large enough wikis? Until those questions can be answered, I am an oppose to this. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 13:34, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bureaucrats are not automatically given CU/OS rights but both can be given manually to themselves with NDA. Silicona (talk) 13:42, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And per your numbers, how many wikis currently fit each tier of eligibility (200/2000/20 or 1000/20000/100)? BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 13:53, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
57 and 9 respectively. Silicona (talk) 14:24, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In both enwp and jawp, bureaucrats cannot grant CU/OS to anyone, a steward request is required. Therefore, I do not believe it is necessary for a local bureaucrat to be able to assign.    Waki285(talk|contrib|log|CA|Target) 14:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Current policy permits election of either two CheckUsers or two Oversighters locally at a minimum, for checks and balances purposes. A local election is currently required with a minimum number of 20 users supporting, and an NDA with the Foundation. I don't see a need to modify those requirements, and for either category, those requirements are attainable.
However, I will note the fact that the reason we have a lack of local CU/OS is because a lot of wikis don't have the size necessary for said rights to be necessary. In the future, should communities of those size appear, it's of course something that will be more common, more users = more moderation needed. At this time, I see no reasons to modify policy. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 15:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Waki285: also, we can look at other projects, but we are not part of them. We have our own policies of course. I don't think we should use the policies or how things are done elsewhere to dictate how we do things on Miraheze/Wikitide. (My personal thought though)  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  10:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
CheckUser and Oversight can be requested if a user passes an election that fulfill the requirements for Stewardship (20 votes, 80% support, with NDA and 2FA). It would be very inappropriate to allow bureaucrats to assign themselves the right as we'll surely have many who will disregard this and grant themselves it arbitrarily. If the community opted for the latter, such an action would have to be first vetted and approved by Trust and Safety as this would require an update to the Privacy Policy. Agent Isai Talk to me! 22:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Reopening Deleted Wiki[edit | edit source]

Hello I am have contributed on an wiki so much I got busy on some other work so the founder deleted the Wiki so is there any way of re storing the e Deleted wiki If there is can someone help out in restoring. Nexovia (talk) 11:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Nexovia: See SR/D.    Waki285(talk|contrib|log|CA|Target) 11:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Taking long to review[edit | edit source]

Hi, I have submitted a wiki to review (#43295), its been a day and a half and It is still in review, anyone know why? WalesGuy (talk) 15:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We are all volunteers, that's why. It takes time to review every single wiki request (there are hundreds per day) and so if we cannot get to yours in a timely fashion, we do apologize, but we do need patience. Your wiki will be looked at eventually, but patience, please. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 15:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Done WalesGuy. Your request has been processed.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  09:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Trouble with JavaScript[edit | edit source]

I've been having trouble getting JavaScript as a whole to work on a wiki. As a result, I wrote to code to simply change the color of any text with the id of "testing" to red to see if I could find the problem. However, I can't even get that to work on here for some reason, despite the exact same code working fine when I tested it off site. Is there something about this I'm missing?

The wiki I'm trying to get this to work on is private right now so I'll just paste the code below. If it's needed, I can talk to the other admin on the wiki to see if he'll agree to temporarily unprivate it.

JavaScript code on MediaWiki:Common.js: 

$(function(){
	$("#testing").css("color", "red");
});

HTML: 

<span id="testing">Testing</span>

 Branfour (talk) 09:43, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Branfour: For our volunteers to be able to help, a link would be useful.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  10:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Branfour In case you are not able to make your wiki public, here's a few things you can check:
  • Make sure the setting "Always enable safe mode" is disabled in Special:Preferences in the Appearance section. If it is enabled, no custom JS/CSS will be rendered.
  • Check your browser's developer console. It's possible an error in some JS somewhere is preventing the desired script from running. Any errors in this console may point you to something that needs to be fixed.
  • Make sure to clear your cache. Changes to MediaWiki:Common.js/css take some time do go live, and you may be stuck with an outdated version.
If all else fails, you can always copy out the full contents of MediaWiki:Common.js (unless the code you have there is everything). If none of that works, I'll probably need to take a look at the wiki to see what I can find out. -- Void Whispers 04:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How many wikis are users allowed to have at once?[edit | edit source]

I wonder how many wikis are users allowed to have at once? Silicona (talk) 07:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I didn't find any restrictions on this. The main thing is not to harm Mirahese and the wiki. Dirruw'o (talk) 07:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Silicona: The question is not "how many can you have?" but "How many can you manage and maintain?"
We don't mind users with many wiki's, but they should rather make them one by one. Make sure that it's done before you start a new wiki. Some users request several wiki's in a very short time. That to us as WikiCreators is unrealistic.
We rather see quality over quantity. When I see a user has several wiki's with only a few pages, unfinished, requesting a new wiki, likelyhood of that new wiki ending in the same state is hig, therefor I would decline such request.
I will not answer questions about specific users. But users often have good intentions, get a great idea and want to make a wiki about that idea, but then lose interest and get a new idea. These wiki's often end up being dormant and end up being closed. That is rather a waste of resources.
I hope that this answers your question.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  08:45, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
On April Fools Day when Miraheze rebranded to Orain, the free plan would give you only one wiki, $5/month or $45/year Supporter plan would give you 3 wikis, $10/month or $90/year Pro plan would give you 6 wikis, and $20/month or $180/year Ultra plan would give you 12 wikis. Creating another wiki, exceeding the number of wikis cap, would cost another $0.50/month or $4.50/year. Silicona (talk) 10:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It was an April Fools joke. What are you trying to imply? What has that to do with Miraheze?  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  10:45, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wikis use resources, which costs you money. So this April Fools joke was created. Silicona (talk) 11:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What relevance does the April Fools Joke got to do with how many wiki's one can have?
What is the thought behind your question?
I don't understand what answer you are looking for. Please clarify.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  11:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is no hard limit from what I know. This seldom comes up due to most Wiki requestors only requesting 1-2 wikis. --Zeus, aka Blad (t • c • g) 11:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

User child[edit | edit source]

Hello. Does the 13 year limit only apply to the US or the entire world? Dirruw'o (talk) 05:51, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As far as I know, this limit applies to the entire world, but California and the European Economic Area may be exceptions.--铁桶 (Talk) 07:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nintendo Wiki, which is a Miraheze wiki, points users that are only 7 years only in the local policy:
Images should not be profane or inappropriate. Kids as young as 7 are surfing this website, we don't need to see any nudity, blood, or violent weapons.
So can 7-12 year olds browse Nintendo Wiki? Silicona (talk) 07:39, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think this restriction is for account registration, not browsing.--铁桶 (Talk) 08:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Anyone can browse anything, there's not much stopping it even if you do have a rule. What you can do is make yourself not liable for data collection by not retaining anything, and as a traditional point of liability sites commonly restrict access below 13 years of age so they do not have to deal with the procedures required to include them as members by laws from the US and elsewhere. Neither trust and safety nor stewards frankly need to deal with all that. So while 13 is not a hard rule worldwide it is the most common as it is least annoying to work with. --raidarr (💬) 09:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't think the statement has any sort of substance behind it; how would they know the ages of the unregistered users behind the wiki, unless they admit to it? --Zeus, aka Blad (t • c • g) 12:02, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And in the CIS? Dirruw'o (talk) 07:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • The policy for users is 13 years and older. Under 13 you are not allowed to have a user account. We can not prohibit children under 13 browsing wiki's, but we can require wiki's with 18+ / NSFW to hide content in spoilers.
The 13 year age limit to be eligible for an account is world wide.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  08:49, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And even in those countries where there are no official age restrictions? Dirruw'o (talk) 14:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
IANAL (legal affairs suck) so take this with a grain of salt:
WikiTide Foundation is based in the US, and is thus subject to COPPA laws, even across the seas. GDPR also prevents data collection from those under 13-16, depending on the jurisdiction, and likewise applies overseas (to my knowledge). So either way, Miraheze must comply with these laws, overseas or not. --Zeus, aka Blad (t • c • g) 14:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Anyone can browse anything, there's not much stopping it even if you do have a rule. What you can do is make yourself not liable for data collection by not retaining anything, and as a traditional point of liability sites commonly restrict access below 13 years of age so they do not have to deal with the procedures required to include them as members by laws from the US and elsewhere. Neither trust and safety nor stewards frankly need to deal with all that. So while 13 is not a hard rule worldwide it is the most common as it is least annoying to work with. --raidarr". Maybe create a separate group of volunteers for such registration? Dirruw'o (talk) 15:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Citing a comment from Agent Isai on Talk:Privacy Policy, "It would be too costly for us to verify parental permission and frankly, we don't have the resources to do it adequately. --Zeus, aka Blad (t • c • g) 16:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, Meta sysop stepping in to offer 2c: there are no exceptions to the under 13 rule. Absolutely none. We cannot control what you browse but we can restrict account registration as much as possible for under 13s. That is a non-negotiable and cannot be overridden by the community under any circumstances. Hope this helps clarify whatever confusion is here. No matter where you are, the minimum age is 13 or more. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 16:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tbh, nobody cares about the under 13 thing, parents don't care (probably) and probably most of us at one point we put a fake birth date for registering on like YouTube lol EmicraftNoob (talk) 01:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Knowingly collecting data from a child under 13 is a violation of data protection laws such as COPPA; while collecting data from a child under 13 doesn't violate the law per se, there are restrictions on what data services can collect from a child in that age range and breaching those restrictions can result in hefty fines (case in point, the FTC's massive fine on YouTube that led to YouTube implementing a COPPA policy). Tali64³ (talk | contributions) 01:11, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
nobody cares about the under 13 thing T&S rn: "Am I a joke to you?" --Zeus, aka Blad (t • c • g) 03:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Most of us here are not lawyers, so the law, regardless of which country's/region's laws, is not really the subject of this question. Asking about circumventing the law is, obviously and on its surface, inappropriate. If there's a legal claim or question, contact a lawyer in the appropriate jurisdiction. In the final analysis, Miraheze has a policy to disallow persons under 13 from using the service (see Underaged users). The policy is intended to ensure legal compliance across jurisdictions. Thus, continuing to ask about this is not going to yield a different answer. – Jph2 (talk) 01:46, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Questions[edit | edit source]

How to elect CheckUsers and Suppressors on local wiki community? --SailRain Talk 02:57, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please see CheckUser and Suppression.--铁桶 (Talk) 03:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Does it require us to elect on the local wiki and then ask the Stewards to grant permission? -- SailRain Talk 05:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As far as I know, yes. Of course, I suggest you wait for an authoritative response from an expert volunteer.--铁桶 (Talk) 07:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There has never been a local CheckUser or Suppressor so far so this is quite new for everyone. Basically what would be needed would be: 80% approval, 20 participating users, a one week period, an NDA signed with WikiTide and at least two CheckUsers/Suppressors. I'd also note that given the sensitive nature of these rights, Stewards reserve the right to refuse or revoke users from these roles if they don't follow the CheckUser and Suppression policies and abuse their rights in any way. Reception123 (talk) (C) 09:48, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A new field for RequestWiki[edit | edit source]

Miraheze has a bit of a 'zombie wiki' problem. That means that a lot of new wikis are created and then the requestor never shows up to even edit the wiki once. Or in other cases the requestor does show up but then they only make a few edits and end up disappearing afterwards. This isn't a huge problem as the Dormancy Policy exists and they eventually get deleted. That's why this proposal here isn't any change to a substantial policy, it's just a change to the RequestWiki form.

The reason for why I think it's undesirable to have 'zombie wikis' is the fact that I think that there's been a trend to have better wikis and focus on quality rather than quantity. To do this, we have to strive for less zombie/sandbox wikis and focus on wikis that actually have what it takes to succeed. I feel like the main thing that causes 'zombie wikis' is the fact that users often have a vague idea for a wiki and then immediately request it without thinking it through or whether they realistically need help with it. If people want a sandbox, they can either use TestWiki or even create a personal/private wiki for their thoughts. But for new public wikis it would probably be preferable if we focus on wikis that will actually be edited and read. In addition (but separately to this), we should do more to help users who are seeking to create new wikis and encourage an Incubator-like project in order to have more thought before creation.

Therefore my proposal would be:

  • Ask users whether they are creating a completely new wiki or whether they're migrating or forking from another host or previous self-hosting
  • If users select a new wiki and it's public, ask them how they expect to get other users to contribute to and view/find the wiki or how they expect to work on it by themselves

Please let me know if you have thoughts or suggestions about this, there's certainly room for improving my idea. Reception123 (talk) (C) 09:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

second question sounds kinda weird? maybe just direct them to FAQ, guides, chats, like "if you don't have an experience to run a wiki and ensure it will grow nicely, consider checking .." (although I think this fits for moving wikis too). Legroom (talk) 09:59, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
1. Requestors should be more specific and briefly describe some of their wiki's content pages in approximately 2-3 sentences.
2. We like to know how a wiki will be used: Is it an encyclopaedia, a guide or manual or a repository? (perhaps this could be extended into a section where the requestor could tick a few relevant boxes)
3. I always ask what the established rules and policies are regarding members conduct and privacy, and how the wiki will be moderated.
4. We as Wiki Creators should always try to find out how serious a user will be. In the short time I have been a Wiki Creator, I have found that users who turn in a serious request, often are determined to make something from their wiki. There are also the users with several wiki's who create a wiki with 15 pages, lose interest and then request another wiki for a different topic.
I think that we need to have a better Request Wiki system which filters more categories. For example, the requirement of choosing a category in stead of uncategorised. That alone will have the requestor need to think what it will be used for. The same for the "Purpose" dropdown.
Just some thoughts.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  10:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some novice editors are overwhelmed that a new wiki is a blank canvas. So my new field question would be something like:
What do you need to stop this wiki closing through the Dormancy Policy?
  • I want to create a world building wiki and want to use the Wikipedia country infobox
  • I want to create a wiki for my song contest. How do I add all the county flags onto the wiki?
- PercyUK (talk) 10:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with this. Pre installing the necessary templates and extensions could in theory be done by the wiki requestor via a form where they could `tick of` boxes that would be needed. Unstyled templates would then be preinstalled, and the requestor could than via own css styling change the appearance.
The dependencies would then also be automatically be included for those templates and modules.
But I think that the highest priority has to be finding out how dedicated a requestor is to make that wiki work. Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  10:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Legroom: I agree that the question is not phrased well at all, that's why I definitely need some suggestions. The issue is people tend to overestimate their experience and their capability to single-handledly run wikis, so I think that just telling them "maybe think twice" won't be enough. The question's purpose is really so that WCs can have an idea as to whether the wiki will end up never being used.
@Rodejong: The category point is interesting. I agree that uncategorized isn't great but the main reason why I think it's still there is because what if there's a wiki that just doesn't fit under any of the existing ones? But back to my original question yes, essentially what we want to ask is "How serious will you be about your wiki?" but clearly we can't just ask it like that, we need to find a way to phrase it that makes it easier for WCs to determine that. Reception123 (talk) (C) 11:33, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
uncategorised should not be a selectable option. If it doesn't fit, then they should be able to choose at the bottom: "None of the above" or "No Category Chosen" or anything similar. We need to force the requestor in making choices.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  11:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Noting for those who don't know, the tech team has been working on a system for default template loadouts(see T11901) so that would definitely help as well most likely. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 14:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We actually supposed to have categories/tags overhaul not long before June 2023 events, but people barely engaged in discussions and soon everyone forgot. The thread in general Discord channel is still there, and it was here too but soon archived. Legroom (talk) 11:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Therefor it's good to get this started again. As we're on the way up, it won't die so easily, and I have it written down in my notes, so I keep an eye on it.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  11:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've thought more about Legroom's idea and I do like us having a notice that leads people to a guide page or something that basically says "Starting a wiki with no experience is tough, please do have a read of this before" Reception123 (talk) (C) 11:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thing also is, that they expect the full functionality of Wikipedia. They don't expect that there is no single page, template etc available, but have to import them themselves with no Idea how these work. That is a discouragement, and they'll likely move on then.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  11:52, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We might need a new guide on how to (not) import templates, and maybe how to take from Dev Wiki if there's no instructions. I don't remember encountering Dev Wiki links here, actually. Legroom (talk) 12:26, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, DevWiki needs to be more integrated here on meta, i.e. that we make a list with most used templates that a new wiki must have. Including the Basic MediaWiki:Common.css with the updated alignment code to float the boxes correctly.
Make users aware where they could get these templates, etc.
The same with Commons, how they should use license templates.
Many have no idea, not even all of our regulars.
The easier we make it for them, the less frequently asked questions we get on Discord and Meta.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  12:33, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We need both warning/reference and template system (either current from Dev Wiki explained, or fully implemented per that Phorge task), having only warning might be too discouraging, I already seen number of users picking Miraheze over Fandom first and then go "Miraheze is too hard, I'll stick to Fandom". Legroom (talk) 15:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regarding a primer section: there should, yes, be a note that starting a wiki is bigger than the requestor may think, and also functions to confirm content policy and other common policies. People might skim but it will hopefully be obvious when they do, and they will have less basis to complain if it bites them later. --raidarr (💬) 13:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Without change or conflict, Zombie Wikis are natural state of Wikis, regardless of age. Usually, Wikis are made to hold information. Once the info gets saved, growth stops. To continue growing the Wiki has want new information to be saved. So the founder may be satisfied and therefore come stop collecting information. New contributors will start saving information and continue to work on the wiki until they are done and then come to a full stop too.
Quite a few sites that I've come across they are game related and there's only so much info to add to it and then it feels sufficient. There is more info than what is found on the site, but until something changes, the founder is content to use what's there and wait until they are forced to add more because otherwise when will they make time to play (eg to use the information that's already there)? It may not be a read only site, but they made the site for pleasure and their focus may have drifted towards other areas. I'm sure they'll return but time isn't easy to measure.
--- Imamy (talk) 22:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In some cases that is true. But there are many examples of users creating a wiki of say 15 pages, where a lot more can be added, but where you can see that the interest is gone.
There are so many wiki's that have been deactivated, due to the dormancy policy. As WikiCreator we also see a lot of requests that state that they want to try out if this is something for them. And naturally we direct them to testwiki where they can see if that is what they need. But not everyone states that. That is what we need to filter. How serious is the topic/scope/purpose and their dedication to it.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  22:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Those examples actually support my point.
The founders may not know how to design or get around a wiki. This could be their first one or first of many first ones. Without having established a successful wiki, they're likely to struggle with their next one. Designing and growing a wiki, then maintaining it and defending it from threats, may get a bit much especially if they can't keep momentum going. So when they stop, they have trouble restarting.
The most we can do is offer assistance but ultimately they need to find their own motivation to continue learning, growing, etc. We can only hope they'll take a chance and commit to posting a little at a time until they stop making mistakes and the process starts starts to feel natural.
--- Imamy (talk) 22:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't know if this technique can be adapted to wikis... Perhaps some type of friendly competition?
It might not motivate all wiki contributors, but that might provide incentive to develop some wikis.
--- Imamy (talk) 01:55, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Custom domain[edit | edit source]

Hello, I made a custom domain request but I don't know where to follow up the request. Please advice. Thank you. Mriveral (talk) 01:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This request has now been handled. For reference, you can add a comment to the request in the comments tab. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 18:53, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A important question (about Wikitide and Miraheze)[edit | edit source]

Today, I accidentally found time to check my Wiki portal and found that the Wiki was gone! (Show Wiki not Found) (My Wiki: Unreal_Neo WikiTide)

Then I want to Meta feedback, the result is also said "Wiki Not Found" this sixth sense tells me that the Wiki on Wikitide does not exist! ? All pages are redirected to Miraheze. What's going on?

Note: I have since seen a lot of things going on between Wikitide and Miraheze, I still don't understand what happened, can anyone give a short summary of what happened during this time! ?

Also, does my Wiki data on Wikitide still exist?! ?

Extra note: I haven't had time to look at my Wiki for a while and was not aware of these things, but when I came back today to find that my Wiki doesn't exist, I was shocked and annoyed that I thought my Wiki had violated some portal rule that led to its deletion.. My Wiki in Miraheze: [1] is still exists, but the data is archived before migrating to Wikitide...

The work is already very tired, come back to meet this kind of thing, to tell the truth quite speechless and quite upset..) Sucrose Fans Rosalina129 12:36, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Migration has been announced well in advance. But still, I understand how upsetting it can be to see your wiki gone, not being aware of the move back to Miraheze.
The migration has been announced on all wiki's. But do not be afraid. As far as I understand, all that was not migrated is saved. Perhaps @Agent Isai can find your wiki for you. I will message him also on Discord.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  13:32, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the information, I would be relieved if the Wiki data were still available. Sucrose Fans Rosalina129 02:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi there. Apologies for the inconvenience. WikiTide Foundation acquired Miraheze in January and decided to use Miraheze as a "base" instead of the newer WikiTide platform as it was bigger. You should have received three emails: 1 in January announcing the news and migration, 1 in February as a reminder, and 1 a few weeks ago as a final reminder. This was sent to all wiki bureaucrats (so long as they had a verified email).
We can migrate your wiki. Is it okay to overwrite the old version? Do you want to keep your WikiTide URL? Agent Isai Talk to me! 13:36, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. So Wikitide has actually taken over Miraheze?
But I didn't get the email that you sent, and I didn't find any mail in the junk mail...
But the data on Wikitide still exists, right? Well, that's a relief. What I do with the Wiki's follow-up (please the administrator!) :
Migrate the existing Unreal_Neo Studios Wiki in Miraheze. (The old archive version of Miraheze is overwritten by the Wiki of the same name on Wikitide.)
I then create a request on the Phorge page: a correction request with a custom domain name. (wiki.colleimadcat.com --> unrealneo.miraheze.org) Sucrose Fans Rosalina129 02:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We can still migrate your wiki if you send in a request per email to sre@miraheze.org, and be sure to say weather you want to keep the WikiTide url. They will then attend to this as soon as possible.  Kind regards,   Rodejong   💬 Talk ✉️ Email  📝 Edits   Auth →  05:13, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you want more information on the merger, we have the WikiTide Foundation/Merger FAQ page that includes the core details. Sorry for the trouble. ╚pixDeVl╝ (Talk ✦ Contributions ✦ CentralAuth) 14:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template Loop Problem[edit | edit source]

I recently from Meta copied the the template User info to mine and after adding all things it's now saying Template Loop detected how do I fix this problem. Nexovia (talk) 06:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Retrieved from "https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_portal?oldid=389495"